Interactive blogging - as we answer another blogger's questions and decide to share the conversation on our blog as well.
In reading a fellow blogger's post entitled, "Straight questions" - I (Mrs. I Define Me) sorta got carried away (can you imagine that?! ;) ) in responding to his questions, and I probably didn't really even exactly answer his question anyway, but Mr. I Define Me and I decided to share the thoughts that we shared on Who Me?'s blog, with our readers here, because we had been planning on eventually writing about the subject of attraction anyway.
Here's the link to Who Me?'s post.....
http://gayoriented.blogspot.com/2013/03/straight-questions.html#comment-form
And here's my response....
These are good questions. I hope a lot of people comment on this and share their feelings.
My husband and I have talked extensively about this very subject. Some time ago, we watched a couple of documentaries on 'the science of attraction', (gotta love the learning channel), and then, we did a lot of reading about the subject when we were traveling recently. So, we really opened up to each other, (which we are really good at anyway), and came to some interesting conclusions that may or may not be similar to the average individual, but seem to make much sense for us. So I will share some of our thoughts on attraction, for what it's worth.
It was interesting as we compared exactly 'what types' of individuals we were each attracted to, and our unique reasons 'why'. I realized that I am attracted to 'kinda big' guys who are tall, strong, (muscles are good but it's not about the muscles - no need to be 'buff' but just definitely NOT 'thin', some extra meat on the bones and/or even cuddly is good):), darker hair & mustache, hairy chest, strong jaw, loving eyes, and probably most important... a sense of humble confidence (but definitely NOT arrogance), with a 'gentleness' or 'sweet spirit' about them.
I know for myself that this attraction probably comes from my primal instincts to seek out 'the one' who would be 'best compatible' with me to produce strong healthy offspring. Which is pretty much exactly what the 'science' seems to say. And also, there is a real sense, for me, that I'm attracted to the type of guy that 'I LONG FOR THEM TO LOVE ME' as some sort of affirmation that 'I am lovable' to that 'type' of man, and there's a definite and strong sense of desire to 'be a team' with that person, or to 'share' with them, in 'spiritual' ways more so than just 'sexually'. For me, the 'attraction' (although it ultimately stirs up sexual desire) is not really about SEX, but more about compatibility, emotional connection, and a desire to 'share' a life and 'develop' and ongoing love. I have little to 'no' desire to have anything like a 'one night stand', 'affair', or 'anonymous sexual encounter'. My desire is deeply rooted in wanting something REAL, and COMPLETE, and maybe, actually, even more EMOTIONALLY FULFILLING than sexually fulfilling.
My husband, however, realized as we talked, that he is attracted to a completely different type of individual and for some interestingly different reasons.
BTW - As we deeply talked about and pondered this subject, we were both so enlightened by our discoveries about ourselves and each other, and it was a really cool communication experience that totally brought us closer together and genuinely strengthened our love and relationship.
So, my husband recognized that he is actually attracted to 'smaller' guys, (not really small - or 'short'), but who are, at least, somewhat tall, but most important lean & trim, strong but definitely NOT 'BIG' at all. He's very attracted to guys with olive skin or a healthy tan (and frankly, for him, it's alot about the skin). Which makes it really good for 'us' because 'I may not be a guy, ;) but I definitely have skin. lol (also, it just so happens, that I've always been a bit of a 'sun bunny' and I like to keep a healthy glow....plus, I'm probably Bath & Body Works and Oil of Olay's best supporter - lol) Oddly enough, the truth is, that I basically pay attention to my skin more for me than for him, and I always have.
Anyway, back to his attractions & desires. Now, here's the interesting part...
He explained that his reason for the attraction is NOT like my reasons, ie: a desire to 'connect emotionally with' and 'be loved (affirmed/valued) by' and 'share a life with' my type of guy, etc. --but instead, his 'initial' attractions and desires are more rooted in a desire/wish to 'be like' his type of guy.
My husband is a big guy with some 'extra weight' (not alot), and he has gray hair (used to be sandy red), and he has extremely pale skin & some redness to his face that he seems to really dislike about himself. He says that he 'wishes' he was smaller, leaner, and he especially longs for a different skin type and complexion. He believes that his 'attraction' to 'his type' of man is mostly related to some deep desire that 'connecting with him', (this certain type of guy), will somehow 'make him like him', so to speak, or somehow 'include' him in that handsome guy's 'club'. And, there doesn't seem to be any 'primal instinct' to procreate with any man that he's visually attracted to.
But, he remembers the fact that from our first meeting (and as we began to date), he was definitely attracted to me in a 'primal - desire to procreate' sort of way. He says that, in looking back, although he was not all desperately, intensely, sexually attracted to me (like he is guys), he felt a strong and compelling attraction to my tall stature and lean build, and especially my shiny blonde hair, brown eyes, and tan skin. He says that he literally had thoughts, right from the very start, of what handsome/beautiful children we would have. So, although the intensity of 'visual/sexual' attraction was lacking, compared to what he felt for other men, the 'primal/let's procreate' attraction & desire was absolutely there and actually very strong.
He also fully admits that his desire towards the men, (that he's attracted to), was/is almost 100% 'sexual desire', from the 'visual' (sexual) attraction - all the way to the 'completion of the sexual act', it's pretty much 'all about SEX' and a deep desire to 'connect with the guy that seems to be what he (my husband) wishes he was'. He literally says that, for him, it's an almost desperate need and desire to 'have' a sexual experience with the person, seeing that guy almost as a sexual object, with not much thought or regard for desires of ongoing caring, sharing, love developing, emotionally fulfilling of each others' needs, etc.
Now, certainly in sharing these deep feelings and insights about 'us', we are risking lots of negative feed back as I'm sure many (maybe most) are not 'like us'. So please know that we ARE NOT assuming that any other individuals are like us, and we are not making any 'statements' here about 'the science of attraction' for anyone else but us. But, I will say, that it is a really great thing to discuss and consider these things with your partner/spouse, as it is a wonderful experience and will probably promote some beautiful understanding and deepen your love.
As for answering your question (finally! lol) about how to deal with 'unwanted' attractions and desires.
My husband says that he chooses not to cultivate his attractions towards other men, so when he notices someone who he is sexually attracted to, he does not dwell on looking at or thinking about their facial features, physique, skin, hands, etc., but instead turns his thoughts to the individual, as a human being, (not a sexual object). He looks at their eyes - not with 'gaydar' hoping to feel a sexual 'connection', but instead, as another child of God, a real person with a unique spirit and a heart and soul far greater, and more real than, just someone to rub up against, have a sexual experience with, or as someone to be selfishly 'used' for his personal fantasies in his mind over and over again. (which is what, for many years, he 'used' to do)
He says that sometimes he has to say a little prayer for help and strength to keep it REAL, but he ultimately loves the comfort that comes as he controls his urges, thoughts, and desires, and he feels a great sense of peace and a 'different' sort of 'fulfillment' in choosing and cultivating this alternate path for his life.
He also points out that throughout the years when he was not managing and controlling his sexual urges, desires, and attractions, he was NEVER really happy, or content, or at peace. And, no matter how many 'guys' he had sexual experiences with, he was NEVER completely fulfilled, and there was never anyone that he could ultimately see himself in an ongoing, loving, sharing, completely fulfilling relationship with.
Anyway, this is what works for him and us, for what it's worth, and we believe we have an amazingly awesome, loving relationship, a completely fulfilling sex life, and he says that our intimate life makes him feel most like a real man. He also testifies of the absolute benefits to our sex life as he abstains from masturbation and 'controls' and 'manages' his homosexual thoughts, attractions, and desires.
PS - I also testify of the amazing and extremely wonderful impact that his choices and actions have on our marriage, relationship, and especially our intimate life.
In the end, (and from the beginning) my husband IS a big guy, who is loving, confident (especially more so in the past 7+ years), and although he doesn't have dark hair or a hairy chest, he does have a lot of the physical, emotional, and spiritual characteristics that I am attracted to. BTW - I absolutely LOVE the sexy gray hair that he has now, and as I read this all back to him, just now, he suggested that possible he could get a 'rug' (toupee) for his chest! lol
And, although I don't have 'most' of the physical characteristics that the guys he's attracted to have, I AM tall, and I DO have the skin that he's attracted to (and loves to touch). He loves my hair, he thinks (knows) I'm beautiful, likes my long legs, and is literally attracted to me, (although he is not attracted to woman in general, and he is also attracted to visually attracted to some men more than he is visually attracted to me). He says that he loves my voice, and he loves having sex with me. And, best of all - he did have a genuine and real desire to 'procreate' with me, and he has a complete desire to share a life with me, and to grow old with me, and to spend eternity with me.
Also, and most important, after you get past the initial 'visual/sexual' attraction part, there's all kinds of great things that we love about each other, such as our shared love of music, all the 'fun' that we have doing the things we both love, our great communication, the joy we share in raising our family, our mutual beliefs and ultimate goals in life, our individual relationships with God, as well as our joint relationship with God as the center of our marriage and our lives.
The truth is, the less we each concentrate on the things that are difficult or 'not perfect' about our marriage, and the more we each concentrate on all the wonderful and positive and good, the better and better our marriage, friendship, and intimacy becomes. Certainly we can't complain about any of that. IT'S ALL GOOD! :D
And here's my response....
These are good questions. I hope a lot of people comment on this and share their feelings.
My husband and I have talked extensively about this very subject. Some time ago, we watched a couple of documentaries on 'the science of attraction', (gotta love the learning channel), and then, we did a lot of reading about the subject when we were traveling recently. So, we really opened up to each other, (which we are really good at anyway), and came to some interesting conclusions that may or may not be similar to the average individual, but seem to make much sense for us. So I will share some of our thoughts on attraction, for what it's worth.
It was interesting as we compared exactly 'what types' of individuals we were each attracted to, and our unique reasons 'why'. I realized that I am attracted to 'kinda big' guys who are tall, strong, (muscles are good but it's not about the muscles - no need to be 'buff' but just definitely NOT 'thin', some extra meat on the bones and/or even cuddly is good):), darker hair & mustache, hairy chest, strong jaw, loving eyes, and probably most important... a sense of humble confidence (but definitely NOT arrogance), with a 'gentleness' or 'sweet spirit' about them.
I know for myself that this attraction probably comes from my primal instincts to seek out 'the one' who would be 'best compatible' with me to produce strong healthy offspring. Which is pretty much exactly what the 'science' seems to say. And also, there is a real sense, for me, that I'm attracted to the type of guy that 'I LONG FOR THEM TO LOVE ME' as some sort of affirmation that 'I am lovable' to that 'type' of man, and there's a definite and strong sense of desire to 'be a team' with that person, or to 'share' with them, in 'spiritual' ways more so than just 'sexually'. For me, the 'attraction' (although it ultimately stirs up sexual desire) is not really about SEX, but more about compatibility, emotional connection, and a desire to 'share' a life and 'develop' and ongoing love. I have little to 'no' desire to have anything like a 'one night stand', 'affair', or 'anonymous sexual encounter'. My desire is deeply rooted in wanting something REAL, and COMPLETE, and maybe, actually, even more EMOTIONALLY FULFILLING than sexually fulfilling.
My husband, however, realized as we talked, that he is attracted to a completely different type of individual and for some interestingly different reasons.
BTW - As we deeply talked about and pondered this subject, we were both so enlightened by our discoveries about ourselves and each other, and it was a really cool communication experience that totally brought us closer together and genuinely strengthened our love and relationship.
So, my husband recognized that he is actually attracted to 'smaller' guys, (not really small - or 'short'), but who are, at least, somewhat tall, but most important lean & trim, strong but definitely NOT 'BIG' at all. He's very attracted to guys with olive skin or a healthy tan (and frankly, for him, it's alot about the skin). Which makes it really good for 'us' because 'I may not be a guy, ;) but I definitely have skin. lol (also, it just so happens, that I've always been a bit of a 'sun bunny' and I like to keep a healthy glow....plus, I'm probably Bath & Body Works and Oil of Olay's best supporter - lol) Oddly enough, the truth is, that I basically pay attention to my skin more for me than for him, and I always have.
Anyway, back to his attractions & desires. Now, here's the interesting part...
He explained that his reason for the attraction is NOT like my reasons, ie: a desire to 'connect emotionally with' and 'be loved (affirmed/valued) by' and 'share a life with' my type of guy, etc. --but instead, his 'initial' attractions and desires are more rooted in a desire/wish to 'be like' his type of guy.
My husband is a big guy with some 'extra weight' (not alot), and he has gray hair (used to be sandy red), and he has extremely pale skin & some redness to his face that he seems to really dislike about himself. He says that he 'wishes' he was smaller, leaner, and he especially longs for a different skin type and complexion. He believes that his 'attraction' to 'his type' of man is mostly related to some deep desire that 'connecting with him', (this certain type of guy), will somehow 'make him like him', so to speak, or somehow 'include' him in that handsome guy's 'club'. And, there doesn't seem to be any 'primal instinct' to procreate with any man that he's visually attracted to.
But, he remembers the fact that from our first meeting (and as we began to date), he was definitely attracted to me in a 'primal - desire to procreate' sort of way. He says that, in looking back, although he was not all desperately, intensely, sexually attracted to me (like he is guys), he felt a strong and compelling attraction to my tall stature and lean build, and especially my shiny blonde hair, brown eyes, and tan skin. He says that he literally had thoughts, right from the very start, of what handsome/beautiful children we would have. So, although the intensity of 'visual/sexual' attraction was lacking, compared to what he felt for other men, the 'primal/let's procreate' attraction & desire was absolutely there and actually very strong.
He also fully admits that his desire towards the men, (that he's attracted to), was/is almost 100% 'sexual desire', from the 'visual' (sexual) attraction - all the way to the 'completion of the sexual act', it's pretty much 'all about SEX' and a deep desire to 'connect with the guy that seems to be what he (my husband) wishes he was'. He literally says that, for him, it's an almost desperate need and desire to 'have' a sexual experience with the person, seeing that guy almost as a sexual object, with not much thought or regard for desires of ongoing caring, sharing, love developing, emotionally fulfilling of each others' needs, etc.
Now, certainly in sharing these deep feelings and insights about 'us', we are risking lots of negative feed back as I'm sure many (maybe most) are not 'like us'. So please know that we ARE NOT assuming that any other individuals are like us, and we are not making any 'statements' here about 'the science of attraction' for anyone else but us. But, I will say, that it is a really great thing to discuss and consider these things with your partner/spouse, as it is a wonderful experience and will probably promote some beautiful understanding and deepen your love.
As for answering your question (finally! lol) about how to deal with 'unwanted' attractions and desires.
My husband says that he chooses not to cultivate his attractions towards other men, so when he notices someone who he is sexually attracted to, he does not dwell on looking at or thinking about their facial features, physique, skin, hands, etc., but instead turns his thoughts to the individual, as a human being, (not a sexual object). He looks at their eyes - not with 'gaydar' hoping to feel a sexual 'connection', but instead, as another child of God, a real person with a unique spirit and a heart and soul far greater, and more real than, just someone to rub up against, have a sexual experience with, or as someone to be selfishly 'used' for his personal fantasies in his mind over and over again. (which is what, for many years, he 'used' to do)
He says that sometimes he has to say a little prayer for help and strength to keep it REAL, but he ultimately loves the comfort that comes as he controls his urges, thoughts, and desires, and he feels a great sense of peace and a 'different' sort of 'fulfillment' in choosing and cultivating this alternate path for his life.
He also points out that throughout the years when he was not managing and controlling his sexual urges, desires, and attractions, he was NEVER really happy, or content, or at peace. And, no matter how many 'guys' he had sexual experiences with, he was NEVER completely fulfilled, and there was never anyone that he could ultimately see himself in an ongoing, loving, sharing, completely fulfilling relationship with.
Anyway, this is what works for him and us, for what it's worth, and we believe we have an amazingly awesome, loving relationship, a completely fulfilling sex life, and he says that our intimate life makes him feel most like a real man. He also testifies of the absolute benefits to our sex life as he abstains from masturbation and 'controls' and 'manages' his homosexual thoughts, attractions, and desires.
PS - I also testify of the amazing and extremely wonderful impact that his choices and actions have on our marriage, relationship, and especially our intimate life.
In the end, (and from the beginning) my husband IS a big guy, who is loving, confident (especially more so in the past 7+ years), and although he doesn't have dark hair or a hairy chest, he does have a lot of the physical, emotional, and spiritual characteristics that I am attracted to. BTW - I absolutely LOVE the sexy gray hair that he has now, and as I read this all back to him, just now, he suggested that possible he could get a 'rug' (toupee) for his chest! lol
And, although I don't have 'most' of the physical characteristics that the guys he's attracted to have, I AM tall, and I DO have the skin that he's attracted to (and loves to touch). He loves my hair, he thinks (knows) I'm beautiful, likes my long legs, and is literally attracted to me, (although he is not attracted to woman in general, and he is also attracted to visually attracted to some men more than he is visually attracted to me). He says that he loves my voice, and he loves having sex with me. And, best of all - he did have a genuine and real desire to 'procreate' with me, and he has a complete desire to share a life with me, and to grow old with me, and to spend eternity with me.
Also, and most important, after you get past the initial 'visual/sexual' attraction part, there's all kinds of great things that we love about each other, such as our shared love of music, all the 'fun' that we have doing the things we both love, our great communication, the joy we share in raising our family, our mutual beliefs and ultimate goals in life, our individual relationships with God, as well as our joint relationship with God as the center of our marriage and our lives.
The truth is, the less we each concentrate on the things that are difficult or 'not perfect' about our marriage, and the more we each concentrate on all the wonderful and positive and good, the better and better our marriage, friendship, and intimacy becomes. Certainly we can't complain about any of that. IT'S ALL GOOD! :D
This post I thought was an excellent example of the mental gymnastics you have to go through each and every day of your life.
ReplyDeleteMost men, straight or gay, find sex to be all about sex. It's how they are built. It's when they have a relationship with sex that it can become intimate emotionally and then more intimate sexually. The Mormon Church knows this, it would be one of the reasons they push marriage so hard (and keeping the CK built up of course being the other reason). Your husband chose never to be in a relationship with another man - so he never got to the point that it was more than about sex. Why he chose never to have a relationship - some say spirit of Christ at birth, some say deeply internalized homophobia reinforce by finding a church that agreed with that (and felt like a life savior).
But mainly, the mental gymnastics - is it ever really tiring? Are you often tired? Such a use of mental energy that.
Anon - We would like to address each of your comments individually.....
DeleteYou - "This post I thought was an excellent example of the mental gymnastics you have to go through each and every day of your life."
Us - Interesting, you don't even know us, and yet you assume we go through 'mental gymnastics' (which you obviously believe to be some horrible/negative thing) each and every day of our lives. You are very presumptuous. Frankly, just because we, on occasion, have conversations such as this, it does not, in any way, mean that we are going through 'mental gymnastics' as you put it, every day of our lives. As a matter of fact, whether you believe us or not, we love our relationship, we are actually very much enlightened, brought closer, and our love only grows stronger 'when' we explore our feelings, share our thoughts, and intelligently communicate. Not that we 'need' to prove anything to you, but we literally delight in the understanding we have of each other, and we enjoy the 'uniqueness' of our relationship. I guess if you want to call what we have and do 'mental gymnastics' please know that, although I'm certain you meant the comment in a negative way, the truth is that the 'mental gymnastics' we participate in are enjoyable, positive, fulfilling, and strengthening - just as gymnastics usually are. Our marriage is really great, and although we are not usually exercising 'mental gymnastics' each and every day.... we definitely enjoy the benefits of 'it', and we wear our Gold Metals proudly ---- each and every day.
You - "Most men, straight or gay, find sex to be all about sex. It's how they are built."
Us - Not sure what you're getting at by this statement. Possibly you meant to say "most men, straight or gay, find attraction to be all about sex" - since it's 'attraction' that we are talking about in our post. Anyway, whatever message you are sending by this statement gets lost in the fact that you seem to assume you are some sort of expert on 'most men', and how sex works for them all. That's a pretty broad statement that feels like it's coming from a very narrow minded individual. I'm sure that there's straight & gay men all over the world who would disagree with your claim that all their attractions are all about sex. Let's give the average man much more credit than that.
You - "It's when they have a relationship with sex that it can become intimate emotionally and then more intimate sexually."
Us - Now this statement we agree with. As a matter of fact, this is similar to what we have been sharing about the strength of our marriage/relationship. It is all about the 'relationship' we have, (ie: the friendship, the communication, the emotional fulfillment, the shared beliefs, the common interests, the love we share for our family, the love we have for each other, etc. etc.,) that promotes and magnifies our wonderful sexual intimacy and complete fulfillment. For us, our intimacy and our relationship is so much more than the 'sexual attraction' which is literally just a minor part of the whole beautiful picture of the life that we share. It is sad when some put soooo much weight in and emphasis on 'sexual attraction', as if it's the end all - be all of human relationships, when the truth and fact is that loving, fulfilling, and intimate relationships are so much more than just that.
You - "The Mormon Church knows this, it would be one of the reasons they push marriage so hard (and keeping the CK built up of course being the other reason)."
DeleteUs - We are not even going to address this statement, as our post on 'attraction' has nothing to do with the church, and, since we have been the rounds with you before, we know that your hidden agenda is to pick a fight related to the Mormon church so you can make your anti-Mormon statements at every turn. Seriously Anon, It's no secret, you desperately hate the Mormon church, (and therefore, most Mormon individuals), we get that--- and please know that we are not bothered or shaken by this in the least, you clearly have a bone to pick there, and probably, we assume, if the truth were known, your passionate blog reading and commenting is more motivated by your anti-Mormon opinions more than an actual personal interest in same sex attraction, mixed orientation marriages, and/or 'gay' folks in general. As a matter of fact, seems like the last time we 'talked' (typed) you admitted that you had one gay friend, and you was headed out to the public library to find some more 'gay' people to interview regarding the things we were talking about in a previous post. (btw - and for what it's worth - my husband IS gay, has been all his life, and we have probably over 15 friends who are gay, so we don't understand why you seem to think you're such an expert on 'all thing gay' anyway)
You - "Your husband chose never to be in a relationship with another man - so he never got to the point that it was more than about sex."
Us - Again, not sure what you're getting at by this statement, but if you are claiming that 'IF' he had only, at some point, chosen to 'be in a relationship' with another man, he would have eventually got to the point that it was more than about sex, then the bottom line is that this is exactly what he is expressing over and over in this blog about 'his' life,... that he never felt compelled or had a desire to pursue or 'attempt' to establish any 'gay' relationships or a 'gay' lifestyle. He's always sharing how he has molded (DEFINED) his life into what HE really wants it to be, and that he had/has no desire to twist himself into a pretzel that doesn't feel right for him, ie: chose a relationship with another man - and 'hope' to eventually, somehow, get to the point that it was more than about sex.
You - "Why he chose never to have a relationship - some say spirit of Christ at birth, some say deeply internalized homophobia reinforce by finding a church that agreed with that (and felt like a life savior)."
Us - (Mr. I Define Me here) Why I choose never to have a homosexual relationship???...... 'I' say because of the Spirit of God, and only I have the 'right' to answer for myself. Actually, your 'opinion' that my choices are because of 'internalized homophobia', and stuff about the church, blah blah blah - are incorrect, but you are, however, entitled to your opinion, I just won't allow you to come to my blog and tell me what you 'think' you know about me. Especially because you literally DON'T know me, and btw - please know that your immaturity and lack of common sense really shows as you continue to attempt to discredit my life, and my definition of my life, with 'your' presumptuous statements about MY life.
You - "But mainly, the mental gymnastics - is it ever really tiring? Are you often tired? Such a use of mental energy that."
DeleteUs - No, we're not tired - as a matter of fact, quite the opposite,....we are invigorated, happy, fulfilled, and enjoying great peace in our lives and our marriage. (But then you seem to REFUSE to see the fact that all throughout our blog we are expressing and sharing the great love and joy and peace that is so prevalent in our lives)
However, Anon, from all the effort you put into your bitter, angry, judgmental, attacking, disrespectful and presumptuous comments throughout this particular blogging community (us, the Weeds, and others like us) (ps - we can recognize your comments anywhere) - I would think that YOU would be the one who is tired. I'm certain that what you do, (your hatred of, and 'mission' AGAINST, us, the Weeds, and the Mormon church), has got to be tiring, draining, and producing great negative energy in your life. On the other hand, what we are doing here on our blog (and how we choose to live our life) is full of positive energy, and is quite therapeutic and clearly a wonderful and good thing for us. We are most definitely 'not tired', we are awake, full of life, and loving life. --- Seems like that bothers you... for some reason (?), sad, actually - for you.
Anon - we will not publish 'all' of the comments from you which are waiting for moderation, but we will copy and paste a couple of your comments in an effort to try to communicate and establish some understanding with you.
DeleteWe are, as usual, puzzled by your indignant attitude towards us and just slightly interested in trying to understand your motives and agenda here.
Your statement -> "Do you not see that by 1. responding and 2. responding in as detailed and defensive way as you do, simply prove my point?
Us = Exactly what IS your point?
and... your opinion of my (presumed) 'detail' and 'defensiveness' proves nothing. You might establish ideas about me/us, and we might believe your comments say something about you, but, in the end - it would be foolish for either of us to assume that we 'really' know anything about each other from a few 'typed' conversations on an anonymous online blog. (ps- for what it's worth, I was a legal secretary for years, and I tend to be very 'wordy' and 'detailed' - that's just me - this characteristic about me doesn't MEAN or PROVE anything, except that I'm 'blonggg winded' - lol) ;)
Your statement -> "If you won't allow me to comment on your blog, then more power to you I say. Because again to me, by responding with such lengthy, point by point vitriol, my point is proven. And by keeping my comments and adding your own defensively (and I'm waiting for Jr.'s and a few others) it might make just one confused Mormon gay person think twice about what you are espousing here."
Us = So what exactly do you 'think' that we are 'espousing here'? ? ?
Keep the plates spinning.
Deletetill next time.
Well, folks - looks like we may never know what 'POINT' anon is attempting to 'prove', of what she 'thinks' we, the I Define Me family, are espousing here. ????
DeleteOne thing we clearly DO know - she's quite immature and rude, and again, very presumptuous to assume that we're gonna 'keep the plates spinning' just for her.
And,... actually, I was already planning to mention that we are getting ready to leave for a week long vacation, and we might - or might not- have time for blogging (moderating comments and posting replies, etc.). But, thanks to all of our readers for your interest and support, and we'll be back with a new post in a week or two.
Please know that we realize and recognize that we have a good group of readers, even though we have little to no comments, our pageview numbers, and our emails, help us to know that there are more people reading our blog than it appears. Thanks to you all! Love ya :D
yeah... I read and support you, but don't always comment. I understand though, that feedback is valued... probably especially more, when others are so spiteful and negative. Your cool and calm responses and refusal to be baited into being mean back is commendable. Sharing personal experiences is brave and helpful, especially when you've pointed out that it is just your experience, and not everyone should or can do the same. We're all learning from each other, but it doesn't mean we get the same answers, because we are all different. But sharing, and being open and non judgmental of each other is how we can all learn (if we are open). I think even just letting others know that you have struggles at all, is helpful, even if the struggles are different. I am not gay, nor do I know very many who are, but I am trying to understand and empathize with those who are going through that struggle, and it also helps me, because I have my own struggles (though different) and it is just nice to find others who are brave and open and trying to share their stories for others sakes. NOT for others to copy, but to simply be open and share.
ReplyDeleteCommenting is hard though... because I have to be so careful to be clear so MY comments won't be twisted to mean what I don't. :)
this doesn't relate to this post, but i didn't know where else to put it...Mr IDM... When watching general conference today I thought of you during Craig A Cardon's talk. Even though we don't know each other, I couldn't get your post out of my mind where you talked about "falling short" of your goal to reach 65 (I think that was the number) days of sobriety. The Lord knows us...he knows when we are trying to overcome..and he forgives us, 70x7..over and over and over again. I felt strongly that I needed to pass this along. I hope you read the talk if you didn't see it, and I hope it helps you in your struggles. I know it helped me in mine!
ReplyDeleteGreat post. I was motivated to comment after reading Anon's negativity - thought I'd throw in some support. I found your blog through the Weed (I think we've even communicated a few times in the comment section there), and I just have this to say - I always begin reading your posts with skepticism, asking myself, "Why are people so darn masochistic?". Then by the end (of every single post) I'm thinking, "Damn, they've done it again. I'm convinced it works for them."
ReplyDeleteI suppose in the end we all live our own truths, and it's difficult to see something that we can't imagine ever working for us, working for someone else. For me, if I had SSA, my ultimate truth would be to have a relationship with another woman. (Or I'm imagining that it would be anyway, you never know). For you, it is different, and it's my job to be more accepting of that, and not to judge.
Society seems to have all these conventions (some of which have been around for a long time, and others that change more often), and to accept that people break these conventions is always so shocking for us. We have to realize however that they are just that- conventions. Our own individual truths are for us to figure out ourselves.
So I've been hearing from the "I Define Me" family. Just saying.
ReplyDeleteLaurie - not sure what you mean here, ;) but I think you are encouraging us to write more. (?) If so, your timing is spot on because actually we have had some BIG 'stuff' going on for a few months and have not had much time (or energy) for blogging (except trying to stay somewhat on top of those blogs that we follow). We are now, however, done with a good share of the busy-ness and are feeling motivated and ready to jump back in. We have a bunch of drafts started on several subjects and issues, and, although hubby is still quite busy with his often demanding job, 'I' am anxious to finish some posts on our blog, as well as dig deeper into the reading of many related blogs.
ReplyDeletePS - thanks for your interest and support - it truly means alot to us. :D
My pleasure ... and yes I think that I missed a couple of words in my previous post ... but you were obviously in tune with my thoughts. :-)
ReplyDeleteI hope that all is well with you and your family.
We miss you. I come here often to check for new posts, but it's been a while... I hope everything is well with you.
ReplyDeleteAre you still around? I would love to here more about your experiences. It has been an inspiration to me and wonder how you are all doing.
ReplyDeleteThank you for your interest. We have definitely been missing in action or taking a break or something ~~~ Our attention has been diverted, but we have talked about our desire to get back into the blog and continue with our story. Hopefully we can work it out soon to buckle down to some writing. Maybe a little nudge from you is all we needed :) thanks Anon - stay tuned :)
ReplyDeleteThanks for sharing! I could relate to a lot this post, and appreciated the perspective.
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