Saturday, January 26, 2013

THE BOAT IN THE DRIVEWAY

Judge not...


One day, while I was listening to a group of women talking, I was saddened as their discussion turned to a subject that I believe was not very Christlike.  In the beginning, they were not talking about any particular person, but just about a certain group of people in general.  Frankly, they were being somewhat critical or judgmental of  'some people', who receive financial help from our church, in the form of money, food, meals, gas, medical care, etc.   One of the ladies revealed that she knew of a family who had received assistance from the church when they actually owned a very large, expensive boat, that was sitting in their driveway,... which she felt was a luxury item that should have been sold to help with the family's financial struggles.

This person's opinion and judgement of her neighbor's needs bothered me deeply.

It just happens that, through the years, we have always had a boat, of some sort or another,  parked in our driveway.   But, most of our neighbors would not know the truth, that all of 'our' boats have always been jointly owned between several family members, and, 'our house' just happens to be the designated parking place.  Our personal investment in 'the family boat' is always very minimal, and we are never in a position to sell the boat, as it is an important family tradition for my husband's siblings to always share ownership of a boat.   (And, by the way,  the biggest, fanciest one of all, was obtained for an extremely low price, as a favor to take it off the hands of a family who was no longer able to use it.)  

Since I know the 'inside story' about our boat,  it had never occurred to me that our neighbors might be 'judging' us unfairly because of the boat in our driveway.

I am also aware of a situation where a woman with several young sons lost her husband to cancer.  This little family owned a boat that provided much precious time together for the  father and his sons before he died.  After his death, the woman was struggling and doing all that she could to pay for the funeral expenses, and so she reluctantly put their boat up for sale to help with her financial difficulties.  When a special neighbor, and member of her church, heard about this,  he purchased the boat, paid her the money, and then gave the boat back to her and her boys as a gift.  He insisted that they keep the boat in their driveway just as it had always been, and reminded them that he would always be available to take the boys fishing and water skiing, etc.  

I assume that most people in that neighborhood don't know the 'inside story' about this struggling widow's family, so I hope that no one is judging them unfairly because of the boat in their driveway, 

We,  Mr. & Mrs. I Define Me, have a very serious and secret 'inside story', related to our marriage and family life, that only three of our neighbors know.  I'm sure it would be extremely surprising to most of our neighbors if they knew the truth about my husband's same sex attraction, our history of marital struggles, the private and personal heartaches that we each have endured, and the amazing strength that we have somehow managed to muster up to rise above these trials and establish the wonderful relationship of true love, complete fidelity, and genuine respect, that we now enjoy today.

I confess, there have been some times of serious dysfunction in our family, some of it might just be 'typical' American family ciaos and a lack of organization, but probably a good share of the time, the secret trials that we were facing did take a tole on our family and home.  

I remember a time when one of our daughter overheard a conversation as one of our neighbor's told someone that I was so "irresponsible".  Maybe this woman would have been more understanding and kind if she had known the 'inside story' about our trials.

On another occasion, I was made aware of the fact that a woman, who did not know me at the time, was being told a little about me as she was going to be working with me on a church project.  I don't know any of the details about what this woman was told about me, but her 'well meaning' comment about the conversation is quite telling,  she said, "well, they told me all about you, but I  LIKE YOU!".  (lol)   Although this could have been very hurtful to me, I actually just felt charitable towards those poor, uninformed women, who clearly don't know the 'inside story' of my life, and who I feel confident would be much more forgiving and kind towards me if they only knew the truth about what I was going through.

Also, there have been times when I felt so very inadequate as I have often found myself comparing myself to my amazing 'superwoman' sisters and sisters-in-law.  Sometimes it's quite discouraging to watch my family members (who I truly love so very much) as they accomplish great and wonderful things that are so impressive to their families, neighbors, and friends.   And since it seems that, so often, I personally struggle to just make it through the day, I can easily get caught up in my own pity party as I wish  my life was a little more like theirs, or that I was a little more like them.   

One day, as we were driving home from a family get together, I openly shared my feelings of inadequacies with my husband, as I ran down the list of what great qualities and talents each of these special woman in my life possess.  (I had no hard feelings towards any of them as I truly love each of them dearly - I just wished that I was more like them in some ways).  

Anyway, my husband jumped right in and insisted that no piano playing, scrap booking, calf roping, quilt making, school teaching, home decorating, marathon running, gun slinging, community volunteering, yoga instructing, gardener could ever compare to my patience, forgiveness, spirituality, and love as we have secretly walked through the fire together, have experienced things that could have caused others to crumble, and ultimately come to such an amazing and respectable  place of  deep commitment, joy, peace, and love.   Of course, I don't believe that any of my wonderful sisters and/or sisters-in-law ever size me up against them, or that any of them would judge me in any way (cause they are all extremely good and kind and loving).  But, my husband pointed out that if any of these woman knew the 'inside story' about my life they would be shocked and humbled and full of compassion and love.   Actually, I know that he is right and that it's true.

Maybe, the most important lesson here is that I  realize and understand that I don't know their 'inside stories', and that I should not be judging any of  them by the cleanliness of their houses, or the quilts on their beds, or the jars in their pantries, or the flexibility of their muscles, or the horses in their fields, or the boats in their driveways.

39 comments:

  1. It just goes to show the importance of NOT judging others, because we really don't know anybodies "inside story" and their particular trial or struggle. Good post, thanks! (and also funnily ironic, because we have a gifted boat too, which we could never afford on our own)

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  2. "Who am I to judge another
    When I walk imperfectly?
    In the quiet heart is hidden
    Sorrow that the eye can't see.
    Who am I to judge another?
    Lord, I would follow thee."

    An amazing hymn that teaches such an important lesson. Like has been said, we never know what burdens another person may bear. Everyone has their own crosses to carry, and they may be hidden very, very deep. Great thoughts, thanks for sharing!

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  3. In reading this back I realize that it might be misunderstood that 'our family' is the family mentioned that was receiving financial help from the church, but it was not us. Not that there would be anything wrong with that, as I feel strongly that any person who receives such help from the church should never feel embarrassed or ashamed.

    I just want to recognize how very blessed we have been throughout our marriage as we have never needed to reach out for financial help in that way. But I am so grateful that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has such an amazing program to assist those in need. And, I know that the majority of the membership of our wonderful church are supportive of, and compassionate towards, those who find themselves in need of financial help. The experience I had of hearing a couple of people complaining was in no way representative of the overall attitude of the average member of the church, but quite the opposite.

    I am currently the Compassionate Leader in my ward and I experience, on a daily basis, the great love and compassion that our ward members have as they consistently serve each other, offer they time, money, and talents to help those in need. What is amazing to me is how, when we are arranging for meals, etc. to help someone in need (after the birth of a baby, or a funeral, or illness, etc.) we always become aware of all the giving, sharing, and helping that is happening without anyone asking or assigning it. I see countless miracles of love and kindness, from selfless people who are definitely NOT JUDGING, just giving, and living true Christlike lives without any expectation of reward. That's the way it should be, and it's my prayer that we can all reach out with understanding and love, and not judge.

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  4. Thank you SO much for this. So true and such an important reminder.

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  5. regarding your recent comment on the Weeds blog encouraging a woman to date a gay guy (he's closed the comments so I've found your blog and am commenting here). Do you realy thnk you should be encouraging straight women to marry gay men? Only one line of your whole long comment admited that your sex life suffered while your huby was having sex with other men. the rest is all happy hapy joy joy. so i read further on here. it took you 30 years to gt to a point where your huby enjoys having sex with you but first you had to put with with 20-ish year of him having sex with other men. perhaps you shluldn't be playinng that down just so other women will marry gay men and your own choice can be validdated. if sex is so so important, how is it you can seemingly shrug off 20 years of your husband having sex wiwth others? and as you no, HIV can sit dorment for years and years - i hope to yoru god youare getting tested regularly becase realisticlly, your huby may not have stopped dipping his wick elsewhere as long ago as he says he has.
    live your lifei in any kind of denial and flowers you need to, honey, but encouraging other women to do the same is just unethical.

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    1. Anon,
      I asked my parents once to let me know if a guy I was dating was possibly gay so I wouldn't unknowingly get into that type of relationship. They both agreed and stated they would not want me to go through some of the things they've gone through.

      Interesting that my first marriage was to a straight man and it ended in divorce due to his addictions to substances, mainly alcohol.

      Would you then say it unethical for me to encourage anyone to marry someone who drinks alcohol or has ever taken mind altering substances?

      I assume not. Not everyone who drinks alcohol is an alcoholic. Not everyone who has cheated will cheat again. Not every Mormon is against gay marriage. Not every gay man wants to live the gay lifestyle. Not every mixed orientation marriage is doomed to failure.

      It may be outside your understanding, but these people exist.

      If you read this whole blog you will see my parents use the words "reckless" and "irresponsible" in much of their telling of their personal trials.

      Josh and lolly are an example of a possibility (mixed orientation relationship) within an exception ( gay man with unwanted attractions, and wanting a biological family ) to a minority ( homosexual people ). My parents are a great example of a possibility within a struggle even within this smaller minority of how to again find peace and happiness.


      If you do not understand this then your judgment and assumptions sound as close minded as some anti gay people who believe homosexuality is a mental disorder.

      Hopefully the true complexities of sexuality and relationships will one day be understood better by the majority.

      If your willing to answer a few questions anon, I am willing to answer more of yours if you have true desire to understand us,let me know.

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  6. Anon - I am sorry for the misunderstanding. I did not intent for my comments to come across as 'encouraging' any woman to marry a gay man, I was only speaking to the idea that a person would 'need' to TRY BEFORE YOU BUY. I was merely expressing what I experienced in the dating process with my gay husband, and how that I assume most anyone, (gay, straight, etc) would pretty much 'know' from their courtship and 'making out' experiences if there is enough physical connection and desire between the two of them to justify going forward with a marriage.

    I was 'attempting' to also recognize that there would certainly be those gay men who would have little to no desire to even pursue dating women, let alone attempt any degree of a physical relationship with a woman. Those guys are not who we're talking about. I believe the scenario of a gay man marrying a women, throughout this particular blogging world, (the Weeds, the IDMs, etc.) is within the context of a gay man who has 'unwanted' attractions to men, and who is taking steps to mold his life down a different (his own) path, and NOT pursue homosexual relationships. For 'those' men, who might have chosen for themselves to pursue a different path (as many other's like them have done throughout time), I believe that, with a healthy mental, emotional, physical, and spiritual attitude, these specific 'type' of men would know if a physical relationship with a women is a possibility for them. Hopefully men with desires to pursue physical relationships with women will do so in a responsible and healthy manner.

    Certainly there is risk of infidelity, or sexual problems, etc. in any marriage (heterosexual and homosexual, including same sex relationships/marriages). I don't think there is any substance to the idea that 'if' you TRY BEFORE YOU BUY, the risks will be any less, or the relationship will be any better.


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    1. As for my relationship with my husband. You have misunderstood some key things about our relationship. If you were to read our complete blog you would hopefully see that we have made it clear that we have always had great sex, and so your assumption that it has taken my husband 30 years before he could 'enjoy' having sex with me is completely wrong. He has said that our sex life has always been a wonderful experience and a great strength to him. He has even often said that it was/is our 'heterosexual' sex that always makes him feel most life a complete man.

      Possibly you don't understand the complex dynamics of addiction, but, for a better understanding of 'our' situation, you might want to refer to some very insightful and well understood comments from one of our regular readers, Tammy, to our post WHO HURTS WORSE PART 1, her comment was on January 12, at 8:16, if you are interested (sorry I haven't figured out how to add a link from the ipad).

      I would like to just briefly speak to the judgemental comments you have made here, (interesting that you have entered your comments on our post which is specifically about NOT judging others-lol). Anyway, your claim that I am "playing down 20 years just so that other woman will marry gay men and my own choice can be validated" is completely off base. First, if you read our whole blog you will see that we are certainly NOT playing down the 'bad' stuff as we have been more honest and put more of the real true grit out there than anything else I have read anywhere (admitting that I probably have not read all there is). And, please know that none of what we are doing is an effort to encourage any woman to marry a gay men - period (that is absolutely NOT why we are doing this blog and telling our story). And finally, I do not need/want "my choice to be validated", because I didn't 'choose' to marry a gay man..... I didn't find out he was gay until 10 years into our marriage.

      Also, clearly our marriage is not the model for anyone to follow. We have, however, found great happiness, peace, fulfillment, and TRUE love, which, I'm sure you won't deny, is pretty amazing, and therefore we feel compelled to tell our story and share what we have learned along the way. That doesn't mean we are putting ourselves out there as the poster child for mixed orientation marriages ...... Certainly Josh and Lolly would better fill that spot. :)

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    2. One message, that we DO wish to get out there to the world is a better understanding of the wide spectrum of 'being gay', the complexities of same sex attraction, and to dismiss the average person's misconception that "if you're gay, you MUST embrace it all the way"....... Who said so??? And this message goes out more to the heterosexual world and their attitude towards and misunderstanding of homosexuality and same sex attraction, because probably a great majority of then LGBT community really know the truth and complexities about themselves and their attractions, but it's the misunderstandings and lack of education of the rest of society that creates a lot of problems.

      I am continually amazed as I hear people say things like, "oh, he's obviously NOT gay, because he's married and has kids". Or, literally, I have heard my daughters say about a guy they dated who someone might be questioning his sexual orientation, and they say, "oh, he's NOT gay because he kissed me", or heterosexual people thinking 'they' are experts on all things gay, and believing that gay men can't have complete and fulfilling sexual relationships with woman, or that all gay men are NEVER going to be completely happy and 'satisfied' unless they have a same sex partner or same sex 'sexual' experiences, etc. The true 'denial', is those who are being offered information from gay individuals like josh weed and my husband and others, which could lead to greater awareness, better understanding, and more openmindedness, but they refuse to listen, learn and grow, and instead fight against our real message, twist things they say, judge them unfairly, and make rude and disrespectful comments which are immature and counterproductive to efforts of communication, understanding, and love.

      A big problem that we see and feel, is from some individuals who, for whatever reason, have a personal problem with, and are clearly 'against', gay men who chose not to embrace the lifestyle and/or to pursue relationships with women instead. It seems that we hear comments from them continuously as they attempt to dismiss and discredit the things that some gay men are saying ABOUT THEMSELVES, and they are insisting that they know better than the average gay man as to what is best for him.
      The truth is that anyone believing they know more about an individual then that individual knows about themselves, and, attempting to discredit that individuals statements about his/her self, and making rude and disrespectful comments, specifically to ANY individual ...is unethical.... uneducated.... narrow minded.... and insensitive.

      Therefore, anon, I respectfully, genuinely, and kindly suggest that you consider coming down off your soap box, open your mind to the realities of 'our' choices and lifestyles, possibly humble yourself a bit, and see what you can learn from those of us that are different than yourself. It doesn't mean you have to agree with us or completely understand us, but even attempting to understand is better than assuming you know.

      Please know that we appreciate your interest and we welcome thoughtful and respectful questions, but we will not tolerate rude and disrespectful comments and/or judgements (I'm sure you can determine the difference), and so, consider this a warning that we will simply delete any further comments that we feel are not in compliance with the spirit that we wish to maintain on our blog.

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  7. Wow, defensive reaction! Like a pack of wolves surounding its prey. i wish you luck, hope for the sake of uthers that you stop promoting homophoboc (God hates gay couples!) gay men maryng women and again, encourage you to get regular HIV testing. Those little viruses are nasty buggers, hiding for years and years. i relize you trust your hubby now - but better safe than sory don''t ya think?
    I'm not interested in purusing conversation with people who are so defensive when chalenged (I once met JW's who were defensive in much the same way, althogh a diferent topic and there's no point)

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    1. You might not see this, but it does make sense that a person or family may and will get defensive about their reality and life. The way people catch the ball we threw and throw it back is expected, why are we not allowed to catch the ball and throw it back?

      Also your understanding and careless speaking about something as horrific and devastating as HIV is a telling thing anon.

      My parents have watched friends waste away from this disease. They know and understand all about the "nasty buggers" that have ripped through so many lives.
      My husband has lived in Africa and seen first hand the sickness and severity this "little virus" causes.

      Don't mistake us as ignorant.

      Had you known an out gay man who lived with this disease, you may not speak so ignorantly to people who have this very real familiarity with such a treacherous disease like we do.



      I pray for any who are living in this reality to feel our hope and love for them.

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    2. Exactly - that is exactly what I am saying - thank you for understending! This is of corse why your parents should be regularly tested - early treatment is esential. you realy got what i was trying to convey.

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    3. Yes well thank you for your concern.

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  8. just wondering if you agree with this teacher? http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/02/11/indiana-teacher-wants-straight-prom-because-lgbt-people-have-no-purpose/

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  9. We don't even have to click onto this to proclaim that we do not agree with this. Just reading the link is enough to know that it is absolutely not representative of the acceptance and love that we have for LGBT youth, and adults.

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  10. Awesome! I trust then that you would support LGBT youth bringing their same sex girlfriends/boyfriends to their proms. Great!

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  11. How about Mormon youth bringing their same sex boyfriends/girlfriends to a Mormon event?

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    1. It happens more than one can figure. I want to say again, as said numerous times by us on this blog, we believe in free agency. We believe in being accepting understanding and loving to everyone. I have served with youth in the church. They are welcome to bring whomever they please. Everyone must behave appropriately even the girls who bring boyfriends. Girls have brought girlfriends and visa versa. Not everyone may have known the depth of the relationship but it happens all the time.

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    2. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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    3. Anon,

      You must know this family has no authority within the church that dictates standards and principles. We believe in free agency, a person acting as a free agent of themselves, to make choices for themself and what they deem in their best interest.

      Obviously we believe in the teachings and standards of this Gospel and trust our personal feelings dictating within us as individuals. It is right for us. This gospel saved my dads life.

      That does not mean we expect or assume to dictate what is best for any other person.

      There are many Homosexual individuals perfectly capable of using their free agency to either align themselves with this gospel, (which many have, although numbers are not known) or they choose to find somthing else (which many do).

      I am answering because although an agenda is clear in your questioning (this is not our first rodeo with questions such as these). Baiting questions are more often not tolerated.

      Within this blogging community there are some young people choosing to live the gospel standards. If you are sincerly asking because you would like to align yourself with these standards then say so.

      If you just want to bait here's my answers.

      If you are an LGBTQ youth within the church,and have questions regarding the doctrine, speak with your bishop about your concerns. Pray and know you are loved.

      If you are an LGBTQ activist, we support your efforts to provide a safe, accepting, environment. Love and understanding are key.

      If you are an LGBTQ youth who does not beleive in this gospel and principles, I am happy you are on the road to finding your own definition of who you are and what makes you happy. I support your journey no matter where it takes you. Know you are loved

      Consistent baiting will not be tolerated.

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  12. what does the Mormon gospel say about homosexuality? What would a bishop tell an LGBT youth who comes to them?

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    1. Here is a link that is not LDS based, so it’s very neutral and informative.

      http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/12/06/166687164/mormon-church-launches-website-on-same-sex-attraction


      Here is the actual LDS website, it is very informational as well on the churches stance.

      http://www.mormonsandgays.org/


      As for the Question about what a bishop would say, that would be completely up to the Bishop, and the individual situation. There is no information I could give you on that, and any LGBTQ youth or adult who speaks with a Bishop would do so with full confidence in anonymity. So it would be a private and personal thing.

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  13. Thank you. I read both links. I read that Mormons are against same sex relationships because they believe that God, to put it directly and simply, finds it wrong. You are all Mormon. I'm honestly not clear how you can be completely non-judgemental of the LGBT community, both inside and outside of Mormonism, if your core belief is that same sex relationships are wrong to God. That in itself is a huge judgement. You aren't simply saying it is wrong for yourself or it is wrong for your husband but rather that it is wrong for any Mormon. As such, it is impossible to be non-judgemental of LGBT Mormons and to a larger extent the whole LGBT community. Again, would you tell a gay LGBT youth who came to you for advice and told you that they wanted to be in a gay relationship, that that was okay? Or would you say that in Mormonism, that is not the way it can be. There is judgement there.

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    1. Anon,
      First off, again you are baiting. Asking us what advice we would give, yet again, is presumptuous, and immature. We would advise an LGBTQ person who believes the LDS gospel to speak with their Bishop. We would tell any LGBTQ people who do not believe the LDS gospel that whatever happiness they find is wonderful and supported by us. We do not PRESUME to tell people how to live their lives. We do not JUDGE their choices either.

      I have friends who are muslim, I am not offended that they think it against their belief in God that I, as a woman, am not covered from view. Their belief does not directly or INDIRECTLY offend me as a woman. I do not feel the need to debate that I am good in Gods eyes even though I am not wearing a shroud.
      I respect their belief and I am secure enough with myself and my choices that their beliefs do not dictate to my ideals. If I were to start researching their beliefs, and I felt it was something I believed or I identified with, if I felt the Muslim beliefs were fo me as an individual, then I would most likely start to where a shroud.

      I agree the overall ignorance about Gay people needs to change, but just because someone believes something that you don’t believe, does not mean they judge you, or that they expect you to believe it also.

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  14. I, Mrs. IDM, personally, and as a Mormon, believe that I have no right or authority to judge anyone, nor do I wish to. I am not the one to talk to regarding your 'issues' against The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, as I am not an official spokesperson for the church. But I am a spokesperson for myself, and I believe in the teachings and gospel principals of the LDS church, especially, the fact that through the church I have been taught all my life, and truly believe that it is my responsibility on this earth to love everyone, and judge no one. Judgements are for God, and God alone. I also believe that we have a living phophet who leads and guides our church, and I personally believe that God will be the final judge for all, and He and only He knows the whole truth about an individual's spirit, so for anyone to 'judge' anyone would not be Christlike (which is what I attempt to be or at least work towards throughout my life). I do choose be believe in and belong to the 'Mormon' church, and I am married to a man who is homosexual and has chosen NOT to embrace his homosexuality and has been able to mold his life into what he wants it to be, and live within the principals of the gospel as taught and understood by the LDS church, and he has a personal relationship with his Savior, Jesus Christ, and is living his authentic life, which makes him the happiest. All of the above does not allow you to assume that because of my life choices, or because of the church I belong to, that I hold 'judgement' for or against anyone else's choices, lifestyles, or beliefs.

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    1. I do however, feel that you appear, from your comments, to believe that you have the right to place your personal judgements on me, my husband, and my family. you are certainly free to explore religions and beliefs, etc. (and you should), and, you are free to judge whoever or whatever you may. But, I am offended by your judgements and disrespectful assumptions, and ask that when commenting on OUR blog that you keep your personal judgements to yourself.

      I hope that you will take some time to ponder more carefully what you do and say, and hopefully you will realize that your very attack on us and our beliefs, claiming that WE judge people, is actually a judgement by you about us. However, I will forgive you for your judgements against me, my family, and my beliefs as I understand that you simply do not understand the realities and complexities of my life and my beliefs.

      So, to answer your question about trying to understand how I can be completely non-judgemental of the LGBT community when my core belief is that same sex relationships are wrong. The answer is simply that I believe that God does not want his children to participate in same sex sexual relationships, but, that he DOES love all of his children, no matter what they do, and only He knows all about any of His children's spirits, tendencies, abilities, etc. , and because I believe this about God, I also believe that He alone has the right to judge any of His children for anything they do, fail to do, or believe. So, it all becomes a very intimate and personal thing between me and God, or my husband and God, or any individual who believes different that us, or who chooses to participate in same sex relationships, etc. Therefore, I truly do not judge anyone for their beliefs, I do not expect anyone to share my beliefs, and I do not hold any judgements against those who embrace their homosexuality. And, likewise, I believe that no one, except God, and God alone, has the right to judge me for my beliefs, and I know that no one has the right to expect me to share in their beliefs or be pressured by them to see 'things' their way - which is what I believe you are doing in coming to my blog with your critical questions and judgmental statements.

      Finally, to answer your last question, would I tell an LGBT youth who came to me for advice that it was ok for them to be in a gay relationship..... I would not tell them that it is ok or that it is not ok.... I am certainly a not their judge, and I would tell them that that is something they will have to research, pray about, ponder and decide for themselves. I would possibly, if they wanted to hear, tell them of my own personal experiences, but would emphasize to them that it is THEIR LIFE, and they must decide on their own beliefs, determine their own path, and establish their own relationships with God (if they believe in God), and especially, I would show them love and acceptance and assure them that i believe that all the answers for their life are within them, and that i believe that through a relationship with God they can be guided and comforted and strengthened along their journey of discovery about themselves. And that they are blessed with the power to define their lives according their own conscience. And I would encourage them to believe in God, have faith in God, to allow themself to feel of God's real and genuine love for them, and to have faith in themselves as they go forward and live what their authentic life feels like to them. And finally, I would tell them all these same things whether they were a Mormon or not. But I would have no comments or judgements about whether or not being gay was ok - that is a question they will have to decide for themself.

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  15. At no point have I attacked you. I haven't called you homophobic, brainwashed or anything else. I have asked questions.
    I thank you for responding. I had to read through a few times because it is long. The answer to my question is in there, thank you. You believe that Mormonism is correct and as such believe that gay relationships are wrong. You believe that it is only wrong for Mormons. you also believe that Mormonism is not the only right religion because you don't feel that others need to live up to its standards. This confuses me a bit because of all of the Mormon missionaries hoping people will become Mormons - if all religions are equal, why would that be necessary? It seems it wouldn't be.
    Again, thank you, I was able to read through all of the 'extra' you wrote in order to get the answer to what I was asking.

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    1. You sound like Jim carey on Liar Liar while holding a black pen "the pen is blue!"

      You'll determine your own judgment of us. even if its wrong.

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    2. Anon - Your bold statements (using your words -not mine) proclaiming what 'I' believe might have been better received for consideration/conversation had you said something with a little more respect, such as "I think I understand you to believe", or "in reading your comments it appears to me that you believe"....etc. as you are incorrect in several of your assumptions, and I am offended and confused by the spirit of contention and confrontation I feel from you. It's funny how a person's 'attitude' comes across quite clearly through the written word.

      For what it's worth, although I don't think you really care to truly understand, here are some corrections to your statements (assumptions) about what 'I' believe.

      Anon says ---"You believe that Mormonism is correct and as such believe that gay relationships are wrong"---
      (correction) I believe that Mormonism is correct FOR ME (I choose to believe the gospel doctrine - I don't expect anyone else to believe it) and, I believe that GOD does not desire for his children to participate in homosexual relationships and that living in a homosexual relationship is not part of God's plan. I do however believe that God created all things, which means that homosexuality is a part of this earth that God created, and that homosexuality clearly has a purpose, and therefore, I believe that each individual must decide for themselves what they believe and how they choose to live, and establish 'their own' relationship with God to guide them in their journey. To make a blanket statement that I believe gay relationships are 'wrong' implies that I am judging others, and I do not.

      --"You believe that it is only wrong for Mormons".--
      (correction) I didn't say anything like this, I actually said that each person has to decide what is right and wrong for them, their beliefs, their lifestyle, their relationship with God or no relationship at all. Whether or not a person is a Mormon or not does not matter to me. My belief in the Mormon doctrine applies only to me and my life, and all other folks, mormon or not must live their own lives, and hopefully let me live mine without judgements as well.

      --"you also believe that Mormonism is not the only right religion because you don't feel that others need to live up to its standards"--
      (correction) I believe that Mormonism is the right religion for me, and again, I don't feel one way or the other about whether or not 'other people' live up to it's standards.

      --"Mormon missionaries hoping people will become Mormons - if all religions are equal, why would that be necessary?"--
      (correction) I did not say anything about all religions being equal (you might have got that from somewhere else), but I do believe that probably 'most' religions are basically 'good', with good ideals, etc. (I have not done alot of investigation on other religions so I can't speak much to that), and I believe that people should be free to determine which religion fits best for them and their life.

      Also, to the fact that Mormon Missionaries are "hoping people will become Mormons"... many religions have missionaries. Missionaries are not exactly out there trying to 'confince' people that they should become Mormons, but basically are more like sharing their message of the gospel of Jesus Christ (what our church believes), and making themselves and the gospel message available for people who are looking for such beliefs, teachings, and find them to be what they want or have been looking for in their lives. Those who find these beliefs, through the missionaries or on their own, and feel that the teachings of the gospel are what they want to follow in their lives, then they join the church for themselves, and their happiness.

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  16. Thank you for restating it simply - "I believe that GOD does not desire for his children to participate in homosexual relationships and that living in a homosexual relationship is not part of God's plan."
    Can't be any clearer than that!
    That's all I wanted to know.
    When someone believes she knows what God desires and does not desire - that is a judgement. And yes, before you say it, millions of people claim to know what god desires and that is a judgement - a good judgement perhaps or a bad judgement but a judgement.
    Through all of your writings you rarely, if ever, have stated it as simply as what I quoted above. Simple I think can often be best - that way the message doesnt get muddled.

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    1. Anon, I also believe that taking one sentence from my paragraph (which is my 'complete' statement), is still taking what I said out of context, and you seem to be determined to proclaim what I believe (for whatever reason - I can only guess), and twist it to make it appear that I , personally, hold judgements against gay individuals because of their sexual attractions and/or actions, and this is NOT TRUE. I have many LGBT friends (and family), and I love and support them just as much as I love any of my other friends and family.

      Also, on a lighter note, my husband and I are laughing as you continue to point out how lengthy my comments are, because my family (lovingly) teases me about this on occasion, but ultimately they are very supportive of me and my writing, and tell me I am good at getting my point across - sometimes it just takes me a while.... lol - oh well, that's just who and how I am - and it's my blog so take it or leave. ;) Ps - one of my favorite readers coined the phrase "belong winded" just for me. :D

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    2. Opps... Stupid auto correct, I am actually 'blong winded'. :)

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  17. Just to clear it up - I don't believe that you personally hold judgements against gay people, I believe that you believe that "God does not desire for his children to participate in homosexual relationships and that living in a homosexual relationship is not part of God's plan."
    I asked a gay friend last night, I said, 'Dale, if I said to you that I don't personally judge you in any way but I believe that does not desire for his children to participate in homosexual relationships and that living in a homosexual relationship is not part of God's plan, how would you feel? Please remember that I love and accept you unconditionally and I respect all of your choices."
    His response was honest. I suggest you try saying that, without any of the add-ons to obscure or soften it. I'm talking of course about LGBT who aren't Mormon.

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    1. So Anon, What, exactly is your point? I appreciate you returning as I was curious to know what our whole conversation was getting to, for you, anyway. I kind of feel like in questioning me (us) a you did, and continuously attempting to twist what we had to say, that you were clearly on a mission to 'prove' something, and I still feel an obvious effort on your part to come here to our blog to make some statement. You seemed so set on getting some 'exact' statement from me, obviously not in an effort to try to understand anything, but just to somehow 'use' for your personal agenda. I just don't understand exactly what your purpose is here, and 'who' your target is...... Me, my family, my husband, our possible 10-20 readers? or, are you just on some sort of 'mission' AGAINST the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, and the individual members of that church? So, therefore, anon, Please make your statement. Bottom line.... What is your point and what are you trying to prove, and to who?

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    2. I'm not trying to twists your statements - I am very careful to quote you, you will notice.
      I believe you when you say that you don't judge others. I also believe you when you say that you believe that God does not desire his children to be in homosexual relationships. To re-iterate: I believe you. If I have twisted either of those two things, please correct me. But you have stated on here repeatedly that you don't judge others and for the second part it is a direct quote from you. I know that you added to the quote how you don't judge others but bottom line is you believe that homosexual relationships are not part of God's plan, yes? Again, if I am wrong, please correct me.
      The only thing I am left a bit curious about is how your gay (non Mormon) friends would respond to the statement I made to my own gay friend last night.
      But that's it.

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    3. Anonymous -- First of all those two concepts are mutually exclusive. The concept of a person not judging others but at the same time allowing that God may judge whoever He will and however He will are two concepts that do not contradict each other. The IDM's never said that "God does not judge others". They just say that "they don't judge others". They are just handing all judgement over to God, as He has a perfect knowledge of all things. This includes of course peoples' hearts, thoughts, desires, emotional capabilities etc. This goes well beyond living in same sex relationships. It also includes the entire spectrum of human experience. Regardless of whether you choose take statements out of context it does not change the original meaning, at least to those who choose to look at the original writing.

      My second thought for you at this point is to wonder what agenda is driving you here. It is obvious that you have come to this site with ulterior motives. What is not clear is the end goal that you have in mind. Is there something about the IDM's sharing their story that in some way threatens you? I'm not actually expecting an honest response from you, so I'm speculating a bit. Are you trying to drive them away from publishing this blog for some reason? They are clearly here to help people, like "Unknown User" for instance. How does them being here threaten you?

      I personally am extremely grateful for people like the IDM's for their willingness to lay their personal lives open. They are helping to bring issues to light that can help many others find peace in their own struggles and/or find guidance for those wanting to help struggling friends and family members. Again I ask "How does them being here threaten you?" Why do you seem so set on trolling their blog? It is questionable that you are part of their intended target audience so why are you here?

      What is your agenda here? What do you get out of it?

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    4. Some of us get a significant benefit from hearing the IDM's story. We would actually like to hear more of it *hint hint* ahem

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  18. I came to this blog because i thought it was about a driveway, however this has been far more entertaining for me.. i must say that mr anonymous needs some spelling lessons!!

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